ZebraUp wrote:

[AOV] Red-Baron1 wrote: Fyi zebra, I see you complain about head on, but I never see you in a bombing mission, and if I see you join 3 seconds later you've left already, why complain about something you don't experience?

Actually Red-Baron1 I usually play at least 1 bombing mission daily. I just avoid them if at all possible unless there is a Lafayette pilot in there as blue when I spawn in.. then I stay.. otherwise I find them boring.. unless tactics are involved.
& I wasn't "complaining" about head on.. I was just pointing out that arrow keys aren't as quick on target nor as precise as tilt.. so if we were to "complain" it just makes the arguments from either side about equal.. but you don't see PC users complaining about it.. we just play.. not whine.

[AOV] Red-Baron1 wrote: I invite every PC player to experience tilt vs PC themselves, and believe me, you will be on our side of the argument too

I have played many times using my friend's tablet when over at his house trying to interest him in the game & teach him how to play.. and I am just as deadly using his tablet.. and while flying his freebie planes no less. My serious downfall is in landing with it.. but that would be something I would get better at with time I'm sure.

I agree with the boringness of bombing games indeed, if they drag on for over 30 minutes it gets old.

1 bombing mission daily, using "tactics" I presume?

I didn't say you wouldn't be deadly in the sky with a tablet, just implying that even you wouldn't be able to catch a PC user with it (if he's remotely skilled that is, but thats just the same as with tilt/joystick pilots)

And arrow keys aren't as precise as tilt? As I've said already, it takes practice, I see more tilt users aiming all over the place, or slightly off constantly than I see PC users having that issue.

Jasonmc wrote: Two types of windows players idiots and assholes. An idiot is to dumb to know he has an advantage. An asshole know he has an advantage and refuses to admit it, one because he doesn't want to admit he's not gods gift to this game or two because he doesn't want to give up his advantage.


Now that I've spoke my my mind I'm off maybe I will come back in another 6 months but probably not

Wise words

it's just my 2 cents work but if the windows players are having to pay to play shouldn't they be the ones that get to vote

If any pc guy thinks flying tilt gives you some type of head on advantage your wrong .we wobble when we shoot ant movement at all and your aim is off especially for long range shots .the simple fact is we have tanken years to learn how to do it .it's not like we are rock.steady all.we have to do is point and shoot do we make it look easy yes we do but we've been doing it for years .not one tiltguy just jumped into Df and started dropping every red in a game .the head on guys made a decision to take the time to learn we said to he'll with our kdr not one guy has had a positive kdr until much later in the game .we didn't say to ourselves oh I need a really great kdr to be good never happened.I don't need to win at all cost to have fun .what I do need is a good fight without some guy telling me I need an escort I like to fight may way in and out from the base or ship .and I don't need to worry about some guy that can turn on me the second he passes me because he uses the excuse I can't aim so I drop to turn .you want to dog fight go dog fight there are four non bombing games for you now if you want to be in a bombing game then drop your dam sensitivity down and take the damn time to learn how to be a head on fighter just like the rest of us did.or maybe zup can fix the problem by making the tilt guy's move like a pc player or the pc guys like a tilt control guy .eithr way we should all be evenly matched in ability the only difference should be the level of the planes and the skill of the pilots

im on laptop,..and i looooovveee to chase those droppers!!

I forgot to say this .if zup hasn't noticed a great number of pilots have already left the game because of the pc guys tear assing around bombing games of in any game for that matter.very few of the guys from when I first started are left .that should tell you something right there

Hell yes, my vote is to seperate. pc players lmbo,such hacks its like. Its like waching a brand new baby giraffe get up and walk for the first time. Unfair advantage. Damn CrYBabys. Yes i might be whining a bit o well. Have made alot of great friends here,butt not willing to go out and buy laptop our desktop to compete

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote: I forgot to say this .if zup hasn't noticed a great number of pilots have already left the game because of the pc guys tear assing around bombing games of in any game for that matter.very few of the guys from when I first started are left .that should tell you something right there

How do you know the reason why each individual player, stopped to play DF ?

...maybe the reason the have leave is that they got bored of all the whiners who make zup constantly change the game structure whitch makes the game more and more unplayable...

Umm most of them.said the game has become.bull crap with the advantage of some pc guys .and.most of them.said they would return if things changed.you k.ow flying around with bombs getting shot down by someone that turns so fast you can hardly shoot them get a old fast.
It's a shame some want to go down the easy road .and hell some pc guys still out turn everyone even with a bomb .like I noticed your not carrying anymore in the two games we had yesterday.

Stop.and think.what the game.would be like if it all came down to skill between pilots .

I'm not going to argue about advantages anymore but I can't help but wonder if there is an issue of what devices are connected to also. After all, playing on my iPhone I can play through my wifi at home or on 3G. All PC users have to be connected to the Internet do they not? I just can't see how a device connected to 3g or 4g can compete with internet. And since most if not all PC's are connected to straight Internet isn't that part of the problem? Maybe it's connections that need to be seperated and not platforms.

Just a thought, you can go back to cutting my computer to shreds again. Thanks.

Edit: I know a lot of tablet/phone guys have solid Internet but some guys are playing in their car... I'm not trying to divert from the issues but connection has to be part of the problem too for some.

Doggy Dix wrote:

Longrifle wrote: The PC has nothing to do with it; I have a top of the line gaming laptop and instlalled the game and selected titl, and had the same results as ipad and phone.

The problem isn't turn radius, it's applied turn radius. I go to turn and my stupid flaps never get to 100% unless I hold the device behind my head or put it through my legs and try to touch my.. well, you know where this is going. The practical effect of too much travel in the tilt control is that you are turning wider because you don't get 100%, versus a keyboard (possibly a controller too, I never found one to test against) that turns it's flaps 100% when called.

If it was just a "how fast you get to 100% problem, the PC guy would pass you and jump out in the lead around the circle, but you would even out and he would be one quarter off your six instead of half a turn off your six. Even speed aircraft with the same applied turning radius is a flat turn will never catch each other. That is what the game is calling for, but with the tilt the way it is , with no fancy moves or pilot skill involved a keyboard catches a tilt in two and a half turns, every time. Can you juke and roll, etc? Yes, but practically it's like you are fighting one class of aircraft down, possibly two. That could be fun, but post update it's simply a death sentence and doesn;t produce loyaly to the subscription based system.

Also, being told your experiments are not valid and your complaint has no merit is annoying as well, and I see no attemp to undertand the half a dozen veterans who are trying to explain the problem.

I get the keyboard steadiness problem, it's a slam the accelerator/slam the brakes solution to try and move slightly, incrementally, on target. I'm all for fixing that too.

Level playing field, if that is what the goal is (video game equality), or unlevel palying field by differentiated aircraft (allied/central powers aircraft made different on purpose, historical parity).

No one is saying PC players are ruining the game, and if they are they are not representative, what we are campaigning for is a fix for our platform for parity.

***and thats why it´s so difficult to aim when you go head to head as a pc arrowkey user, becouse you get an imidiatly respond, of the pc arrowkeys, and it´s impossible to aim smoothly...I have to jiggle the plane every time, so i can aim on the right spot on the opposite plane...and often when i am in the right angle and try to hit i already have been hitten 4 times...

Note;If you get a fix so you can turn quicker...it can be on the cost behalf that you get the same issue as we pc Arrowkey users are wrestling with,,,getting aiming problems, especially in head to head fights...as the Control is going to be more sensitive...just saying...

I realize shortening the tilt travel path will make a plane faster in the turn and harder to align on targets at a distance. That's the parity I am looking for.

[M]Comet wrote: I'm not going to argue about advantages anymore but I can't help but wonder if there is an issue of what devices are connected to also. After all, playing on my iPhone I can play through my wifi at home or on 3G. All PC users have to be connected to the Internet do they not? I just can't see how a device connected to 3g or 4g can compete with internet. And since most if not all PC's are connected to straight Internet isn't that part of the problem? Maybe it's connections that need to be seperated and not platforms.

Just a thought, you can go back to cutting my computer to shreds again. Thanks.

Edit: I know a lot of tablet/phone guys have solid Internet but some guys are playing in their car... I'm not trying to divert from the issues but connection has to be part of the problem too for some.

I think that is part of the lag equation, Zup has said as much and eliminated the lowest class phones and tried to move the bar up somewhat.

Another thought. I have a second account set up on another profile on my PC. Ok before you ban me, it was set up so my son could try it out. Because that profile requires permission before connecting with the Microsoft store, it was not automatically updated. It was still on version 4.483 or whatever...the 83 is what's important because it was not the latest version. I played a few games on it and some things were weird...so I checked the version. I had to authorize permission to update it.

Guys here's my point: if we're not all up to date, isn't that an issue as well?

Longrifle, I totally believe (and have always believed you) what you're saying and have agreed with you for a long time. I'm after parity also.

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote:

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote: I forgot to say this .if zup hasn't noticed a great number of pilots have already left the game because of the pc guys tear assing around bombing games of in any game for that matter.very few of the guys from when I first started are left .that should tell you something right there

How do you know the reason why each individual player, stopped to play DF ?

...maybe the reason the have leave is that they got bored of all the whiners who make zup constantly change the game structure whitch makes the game more and more unplayable...

Umm most of them.said the game has become.bull crap with the advantage of some pc guys .and.most of them.said they would return if things changed.you k.ow flying around with bombs getting shot down by someone that turns so fast you can hardly shoot them get a old fast.
It's a shame some want to go down the easy road .and hell some pc guys still out turn everyone even with a bomb .like I noticed your not carrying anymore in the two games we had yesterday.

hehe Wabbit my dear dear friend, you just make a little misjudgement saying that i dont carry bombs...


I can tell you and other doubters that i Always carry at least 1 bomb under the belly of my plane, if there is some droppers in the red team i may do a other stance, but just for the reason, that i dont want to be cannonfodder for this guys...

So if you now ask me for forgiveness of your little misjudgment, we can go on like nothing had happened

And thats the point one guy drops so someone else drops the the game of bombing of is gone it just another dog fight mission .like I said I don't care if a noob drops to stay alive for more that a few seconds it's the guy that have some.experience that piss me off .if someone can't defend themselves from.a couple of dropping noobs and still carry their bomb or bombs then they shouldn't be flying .

now here's a thought not once not ever have I heard the pc guys ask zup to help them out so they can compete in head on fighting .there are some that have fought hard and long to be able to do it with their pc .I've never heard zebra say hey zup could you make the pc more stable so I can head on fight

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote:

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote:

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote: I forgot to say this .if zup hasn't noticed a great number of pilots have already left the game because of the pc guys tear assing around bombing games of in any game for that matter.very few of the guys from when I first started are left .that should tell you something right there

How do you know the reason why each individual player, stopped to play DF ?

...maybe the reason the have leave is that they got bored of all the whiners who make zup constantly change the game structure whitch makes the game more and more unplayable...

Umm most of them.said the game has become.bull crap with the advantage of some pc guys .and.most of them.said they would return if things changed.you k.ow flying around with bombs getting shot down by someone that turns so fast you can hardly shoot them get a old fast.
It's a shame some want to go down the easy road .and hell some pc guys still out turn everyone even with a bomb .like I noticed your not carrying anymore in the two games we had yesterday.

hehe Wabbit my dear dear friend, you just make a little misjudgement saying that i dont carry bombs...


I can tell you and other doubters that i Always carry at least 1 bomb under the belly of my plane, if there is some droppers in the red team i may do a other stance, but just for the reason, that i dont want to be cannonfodder for this guys...

So if you now ask me for forgiveness of your little misjudgment, we can go on like nothing had happened

And thats the point one guy drops so someone else drops the the game of bombing of is gone it just another dog fight mission .like I said I don't care if a noob drops to stay alive for more that a few seconds it's the guy that have some.experience that piss me off .if someone can't defend themselves from.a couple of dropping noobs and still carry their bomb or bombs then they shouldn't be flying .

now here's a thought not once not ever have I heard the pc guys ask zup to help them out so they can compete in head on fighting .there are some that have fought hard and long to be able to do it with their pc .I've never heard zebra say hey zup could you make the pc more stable so I can head on fight

who was talking about dropping noobs ?...i didnt ... u know who is meant when ppl mention droppers...thats not the noobs they talk about.

do you Think we gonna have zups ear just becouse we start whining about our lack in head on fighting...you gotta be kidding...lol

Zup cant do anyting about how the controls on a keyboard works...the arrowkey react in millisecs. your hands react up to ½ sec delay and then your tablet have to react after that...so what you i practics are suggesting is a permament delay/lagg for pc arrowkey users...i dont Think that any good idea...

Absolutely not no lag delay.I do.t know if you were here for the update that made everyone equal there were a great many that could head on fight with ease .but some cried they wanted their ability to turn fast so zup fixed it .so now tell me that the pc guys dont have an advantage in turning even some pc guys have said they do .it's the guys that abuse it and tear azz around in bombing games that cause the problem and give the rest of the guys that try hard a bad image

Top hat I like your analogy of the soccer players, but you have it wrong. It's like one team has a regulation sized goal (windows players). And all the tilt players are shooting for something the size of a basketball hoop. Not trying to make all player equal just the equipment we use.

Doggy Dix wrote:

Jasonmc wrote: Top hat I like your analogy of the soccer players, but you have it wrong. It's like one team has a regulation sized goal (windows players). And all the tilt players are shooting for something the size of a basketball hoop. Not trying to make all player equal just the equipment we use.

yes i understand that but it dont gonna happend...there be always small diffrencies in Connections, tablets phones and so on ... there never gonna be equality...i Think we have to live with that...until zup launch the new DF...there platforms are separated...then we dont have to argue over this matter anymore.

edit as PC player vs other divices...

Ahh now that's where you are wrong because it has happened before .please note the post about an update long ago .everyone was equal in turning climbing and all other stuff but the skill level of the pilot when that happened a few of the pc guys screamed for so.long zup fixed it for them.

Yes rabbit absolutely correct. I believe that was also around the same time it swiched from 2 shot kilk to 56 shots to kill. The begining of the end

I never had an issue with the pc player till, the day.they became invincible. They all think, my opinion (sence everyone asked me) is that the pc player thinks he is the best pilot in the game, which they.do. In a great bombing miss even teams im at a kdr 75-9 and here comes u know who,game is fk ruined and everyone leavez.
When u pc players say we are complainig to much, I think we are just doing the same exact thing u guys did a couple month's back when u guys got zup to change the game.

1-2 shots to kill changed to 100 bs

, changed from having one bomb to two bombs wtf is that about
These changes in the game where the beginning of the end for me at least. When the game was like that u atleast had a chance of connecting with a couple to take him down.pc player.
I never see any of these players any more in games because i dont bother staying in a game with pc player even when on same team.

. And yes there is a somewhat of a bit of profiling going on in game now by referring to a pc player as a pc player,instead of joe blow.
Zebra u crack me up,its your dihonest way of saying things that u become so defensive.

then close your legs

Oh this was.longer than that dog this happened maybe a few months if I'm.not mistaken after the pc players were introduced to the game .it would take someone with more time than I have and probably a pc to find it .bunny not so smart about these things I'm.only one step up from banging on my phone with a rock

tailzz,vip wrote: Zebra u crack me up,its your dihonest way of saying things that u become so defensive.

I am guessing you are saying I am "dishonest"??? Ummm.. no, I am not dishonest. So stop the false accusations. Thank You.

Have I said PC users don't have an advantage? No. I said we don't have a tighter turning radius or quicker roll rate... THE GAME ENGINE MAKES THE LIMITS FOR EVERYONE THE SAME!

There is however obviously an advantage in dogfighting where by hitting an arrow key takes you instantly to a 100% turn versus whipping your whole body around with a tilt phone or tablet in order to go to full turn.. and those fractions of a second quicker via arrow keys quickly add up! So yeah, in dogfighting PC's have an advantage.. providing they have their sensitivity turned up to max.

But on the other hand unless we lower our sensitivity waaaay down there is no way for us to even have a chance to get on target as quickly or accurately as an experienced tilt player. And even then it's limited by the fact they are arrow keys.. if aiming could be mouse controlled it would be a totally different story!

So I don't say there isn't an advantage for PC users in some missions.. but I am also saying there IS an advantage for tilt users in head on shooting.. & I TRULY WISH zuperman could bring the equality so many tilt players are asking for!! I don't like the fact that MOST of the great dogfighters are on PC.. notice I said "most". Some great ones aren't and never have been on PC. But since they're a great dogfighter everyone assumes they must be! The top dogfighter in this game flies an Apple.. & I would rather have Von Hulk able to give me a run for my money dogfighting.. as it is he usually kills me looooong before I ever get close enough to dogfight him lol!

I really wish all devices and platforms could be equal.. maybe someday. Email zuperman and ask him why they aren't yet. See what he has to say about it. He's the ONLY ONE who can make that happen!

No this was much further back in time .I belive it was before you started playing. we might need a time Lord to find out just when .
ps sent you a pm.dog

Doggy Dix wrote:

darraxx wrote: Oh this was.longer than that dog this happened maybe a few months if I'm.not mistaken after the pc players were introduced to the game .it would take someone with more time than I have and probably a pc to find it .bunny not so smart about these things I'm.only one step up from banging on my phone with a rock

Ok then it wasn't at same time as zup make the planes bigger then... That I know affect movements of tthe planes badly...at that time everyone tablett players as pc players complained loudly witch made zup correct the speed and manouvrbility on the planes...i remember it was at the same time he change the hits increased too. about Eight mouths ago...

edit....tnx for the pm Rab...

No, Zup says making the planes larger had no effect on their speed and handling. To say differently is not allowed. I found an old post where someone timed the base to base crossing and flew the same metrics, but my analysis was not acccepted. The planes fly the same; it's an optical illusion. Believe it or face ridicule.

Doggy Dix wrote: Zup cant do anyting about how the controls on a keyboard works...the arrowkey react in millisecs. your hands react up to ½ sec delay and then your tablet have to react after that...so what you i practics are suggesting is a permament delay/lagg for pc arrowkey users...i dont Think that any good idea...

That was actually my suggestion, and that would help a lot, considering the delay we have as tilt users, seems like the right thing to do, doesn't it? Would also stop the advantage of the PC users over the tilt user, because I agree that they don't have a different turn radius, its just our delay that is the PC users advantage.

ZebraUp wrote: The top dogfighter in this game flies an Apple..

Says the guy (who plays on PC) with the Top Turnfighter Award in his signature

[AOV] Red-Baron1 wrote:

ZebraUp wrote: The top dogfighter in this game flies an Apple..

Says the guy (who plays on PC) with the Top Turnfighter Award in his signature

LOL Red-Baron! But seriously I KNOW I am not the best.. oh I MAY be in the Top 20 dogfighters in the game, but I don't hold a candle to pilots like Blue MaX & Ziza for example.. just to name two (both of which don't use PC)

I don't belive that old.update had to do with lag .but maybe shorting the sensitivity for pc guys might work .it would be nice not to have to leave a non bombing mission when you or others show up zebra

Doggy Dix wrote:

[AOV] Red-Baron1 wrote:

Doggy Dix wrote: Zup cant do anyting about how the controls on a keyboard works...the arrowkey react in millisecs. your hands react up to ½ sec delay and then your tablet have to react after that...so what you i practics are suggesting is a permament delay/lagg for pc arrowkey users...i dont Think that any good idea...

That was actually my suggestion, and that would help a lot, considering the delay we have as tilt users, seems like the right thing to do, doesn't it? Would also stop the advantage of the PC users over the tilt user, because I agree that they don't have a different turn radius, its just our delay that is the PC users advantage.

and if it´s so, whoes delay should be the Point of new caclulation of the delay ? yours ??? or somebody else who get mistreated when he still Think i is agreweied...the debate never gonna end that my opinion...

i hope for sure that df 2 is launched soon so i can fly without being considered as an outsider i have had enough of bullies... sort of speak...

theres a feeling that you want to make all PC users to pigs behaving badly ... as you countiniu act like bullies, against al pc aviators...back of , please...

The delay should be the same for all tilt users, human reaction time left aside, that is.

Easy way to end the debate is offered already; look at the thread title...

We don't want to portrait you as "pigs behaving badly" we just want the advantage to finally end... And its obvious there is an advantage, otherwise this debate wouldn't have taken place, right?

And yes, I too am craving for the release of DF2, not only to end this debate, also to end the lagg (which is largely dealth with thanks to the new servers, on which you did a superb job zuperman! But in some games theres still a bit of it going on, hope it will be smooth on DF2), and of course the new planes!

ZebraUp wrote:

[AOV] Red-Baron1 wrote:

ZebraUp wrote: The top dogfighter in this game flies an Apple..

Says the guy (who plays on PC) with the Top Turnfighter Award in his signature

LOL Red-Baron! But seriously I KNOW I am not the best.. oh I MAY be in the Top 20 dogfighters in the game, but I don't hold a candle to pilots like Blue MaX & Ziza for example.. just to name two (both of which don't use PC)

I didn't get to dogfight them yet (well I fought blue max with a spad/pfalz, but thats not really even odds... ). Hope to be able to do that soon! (altough by your description, my kdr is terrified... )