So much has already been said! I invite everyone to post links and/or short quotes from note-worthy discussion threads. A brief description or introduction with a link to the first post of a thread would be easiest to attach.



The discussions often start as a complaint about how another pilot plays the game. Some threads go on and on with input from many different players. They usually come to a point where everyone puts in their 2 cents yet people continue to disagree.

Religion and politics are forbidden forum topics because they are full of irreconcilable differences and high emotion. It may be that "Honor" and "tactics" are the religion and politics of Dogfight. Still, new threads critical about how other people fly are as common as ever.

None of these issues are new. One of the first of these discussions on forum record is post #360 (+4 years and over a ¼ million posts ago) by "BEEDEE" . He wrote about what we now call "Dropping" and "Camping" and suggested that Zuperman provide limits on fuel (to prevent long term camping) and to make it so you can not drop your bomb until you are in enemy territory. Although the writer showed strong opinions of how he would like to see the game played, he was entirely constructive with his note to Zup. It was not in the tone of a complaint, in fact he started with: "I request you to kindly consider the following points"


I ask:

---

If you post about a topic in an effort to improve the game experience, please be constructive. There is about as much chance of determining “THE RIGHT WAY TO PLAY” as there is of everyone agreeing on “THE ONE” correct religion or political view.

---

Dogfight "Law" links
note: I am recommending these threads not only for the content of their original posts, but also as community discussions on these topics so the reader can check out a variety of opinions held by many different players. In fact, most of these threads are still live and anyone is welcome to continue the conversations.




On Rules or Etiquette:

The official Dogfight (echoboom/zuperman) sanctioned rules:

From Zuperman-Kindly Clarify? :

zuperman wrote: ...The idea is very simple: anything that could ruin the game for you or other players if repeated constantly is not allowed...

Do we really need to spell out a rule book when you know you are ruining the game for all the other team? If you know it is ruining the game, you know it is wrong. Trying to excuse it with: where are the rules? It's like pissing on the kitchen of a bar and say that there is no sign saying it's forbidden.

The "Official Rules"

Privacy Policy and Terms of Use

Zuperman posts on spawnkilling



In-game rule enforcement

To report an abusive player

Let people take off (By zuperman)

Official blacklist thread (The official place on the forum to report wrong doing or to petition for the lifting of a ban or mute)

Rules, complaints and etiquette...*sigh*

Kill Range Poll (This thread is case study in misuse of second accounts.)

Why did I kick Pluribus from that game (A case study in game moderator ethics)





On Tactics/strategy/game philosophy

The Dogfight Meta

SB467 DF MAXIM's & MORE

There are no Rules: An Article on DF Ethics

Tips for the lopsided game from MäX

What makes a 'GG' a good game

Outnumbered? =Survival Mode=!!!

Get a tissue!

Head on only? Why?

Bombing game tactics ?

Transcend Your Game -By Luna, how to coordinate an effective sneak.


On dropping in bombing games:

did you forget something?

Complaining about droppers? STFU!

Game etiquette: dropping in BTC

Bombing game tactics ?



On sneaking:

Why MORAFs Do Camping and sneaking

the punishment sneakers deserve?

1000 is not sneaking

Altitude = Poor form?!

Transcend Your Game -By Luna, how to coordinate an effective sneak.



On Camping:

camping

Why MORAFs Do Camping and sneaking

To Camp Or Not To Camp (Act 3 Scene 1)



On Spawnkilling:

Let people take off (By zuperman)

To the Mods: Spawnkilling (Lots of input from many former game moderators)

SPAWN KILLING: The Great Debate

spawnkilling?




FYI Notices

recognizing imposters

Tips for the lopsided game from MäX
originally posted on Get a tissue!

BlüEMäX wrote:
Sometimes it's like the game wants to test you. Just to see if you will stay. I will admit sometimes after I see red after red enter I'm like WTH? Man I can play but give me a break. I still like to make it hard on em. Some of these turn around and some don't.

Tips for the lopsided game from MäX

1. Always shoot the guy that is killing you first. Not just rank. The one that is dropping you the most he is top of the list. Most times it will be a high rank guy but not always.

2. Never leave a tank. EVER

3. Kill as many chutes as you can. Doubling back to get tanks is time consuming. You have no time to waste. Defense.

4. Never Tank. Waste of valuable killing time. You are on defense. A tank is a offensive weapon. If you make it the last hill and get shot down tank there. No other time.

5. Chute kills save you buns. Jump and start shooting.

6. Kill planes before tanks. You can not kill tanks if someone shoots you down. Prioritize targets.

7. Memory. Remember the guys names that sneak. Make 2 runs low then drop and go high fast. He will be there. Kill him and return to the field. Two more runs and back high. You can set you watch by it. They will get tired of getting killed and leave. You will be happy. The same guys sneak every time. Over & over & over. Ugh.

8. Switch and help an outnumbered guy. They remember it. Some day they will return the favor.

9. Never leave. Don't quit. No matter what. Just keep killing.

10. Shoot planes down in order. Kill one, wait, kill 2, wait, kill 3, wait a sec. It spreads them out. They will be forever coming in a line. Easier to kill one at a time. If you have a horde of reds it is difficult. Very few guys form up and fly together.

11. Don't miss. make your shots count.

12. If you are shot down close to your base do not get in a chute. Choose plane and get in the air fast.

Official Echoboom/zuperman sanctioned rules:


In fact, the only official "rules" are listed on a thread titled:

*Read before posting* Forum Rules/Etiquette (This thread has been locked and stickied to the top of the Gossip section.)



Under the section "Dogfight (in game) and Dogfight Forum Rules" eighteen rules are listed. The only one pertaining to in-game play is:

17. (In game only) Do not team kill, destroy our own bases or anything else that would be deemed "gameplay ruining"


The other "rules" are about various legal issues and various forms and types of communication. For example:

12. Do not bash other players or squadrons either in forum or in game.

13. Absolutely no flaming/trolling or heavy swearing. You will be banned for a certain amount of time which is at the discretion of the Admin/Mod.

14. Help new players.

16. We respect other people's thoughts, opinions and beliefs.

18. Remember: The use of Dogfight and forum is a privilege, not a right. The Dogfight staff reserves the right to revoke access and remove content without notice. This includes being muted or banned in game.

Welcome to the Grand Opening of:


The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library





Please post brief descriptions and links to any threads you feel should be included here. If they fit I will link them in the first post of the thread.

McFate

zuperman wrote: ....

Again, I understand the frustration on crashes but please don't make up stories about what I do or don't do. And specially my reasons behind them, which clearly are not remotely close to what you said.

I can't release updates to older devices and Apple, Google and Microsoft keep updating their systems. That means I'm forced to rewrite lot of things and it takes time. The main reason to not releasing updates to the existing version of the game is because I can't. Simple as that. So I had to create a whole new version of the game and work from there. I'm forced by the stores to either move on to a new release or never update the existing version and let it die slowly. So I made my choice: df2.

zuperman wrote: That you don't see me doesn't mean i'm not here. I work "often" helping this game out. Meaning, I work 15 to 20 hours a day on this game. Anyone who writes emails to Echoboom with an issue can testify that (even more proof, how long did i take to get into this after they sent me an email? I believe 10 minutes).

I made an announcement months ago that I would not be posting on the forums or interacting as much because otherwise I couldn't progress improving the game. So please, last time I did the same people began assuming I was away from the forum on the bahamas. I'm working. I just try to manage my time better.

Again, I'm avoiding to get involved into the daily conversations on here unless requested. This forum is for you guys, I try to not get involved much.

This thread is like a library for DF lawyers: Fantastic!

Visit The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library

re: Impostors


Be aware that there are some trolls who change their name to impersonate other players. The fake name is sometimes so similar to the real one that you would not notice they were different unless you saw them side by side. Even then you may not know which one is the original. For example:

"HOT DEATH"
or
"H0T DEATH"

Would you spot the impostor? The only difference is that the letter 'O' is a zero in the second one.

Or how about:

"lil bad azz"
or
"1i1 bad azz"
or
"|¡| bad azz"

They don't look much different in game or a screen shot.



To check the identity:

In world chat; click on the name and hit 'INFO'. Check the squad affiliation or rank/stats. Most trolls won't be very high rank and (hopefully) won't be from the same squad...

On the forum; check the profile of the poster. Their post history will be on their profile page. Also they may have a history of 'thank yous' given and received. Unless it is a brand new account you may be able to get some info about them from their previous actions.

Zuperman has said that he always gets the reports with the in-game chat and he can track the player however many times they change names.

Posts about rules re: Spawn killing by Zuperman

Visit The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library





From Let people take off (By zuperman) :

zuperman wrote: Guys, I'm disappointed that I always have to modify stuff so people don't abuse the system.

I mean, it's common sense and it hurts you otherwise. I'm talking now about letting players take off. In the past 3 days every time I log in,someone different is flying around the enemy airport and then shooting players before they take off.

Problem? Well, usually they are new people who just playing for the first or second time, after 2 minutes without any hope because usually the person doing this is a way higher rank, they leave the game and NEVER come back, writing reviews saying the game is boring.

I find myself alone on my team while this person flying is just collecting points. Obviously if they know who I am, they stop, but since I'm not always playing it's just bothers me that this person is not able to have some kind of manners towards players.

So what now? I'm forced to add an inmunity option for maybe 30 seconds after take off, or maybe just ban everyone that shoots me 2 times before i take off with a message that says "you are a jerk" or similar
you get the idea. let others have fun and you'll have fun. My idea of fun is not to login and leave myself alone on my side with no enemies playing.

To clarify as much as possible,

Though Zuperman does not "approve" of spawnkilling, he doesn't seem to want to make the rules hard lines. He doesn't say "Do it once and you're out."

Also from Let people take off (By zuperman) :

zuperman wrote: ... From my point of view spawn killing is bad, period. No excuse for it. Everybody does it eventually because it just happen but setting a rule to when it is ok is completely unnecessary.
It is like cursing. You do it from time to time and nobody will say anything... Now go in a cursing tirade and you get banned.

From Zuperman-Kindly Clarify? :

zuperman wrote: I don't think we need to write the rules every 6 months. The idea is very simple: anything that could ruin the game for you or other players if repeated constantly is not allowed.
There is no need to repeat it for every single specific case that may arise: now you can tank on this corner of the map, is it allowed to spawn kill? Now you can jump with one leg on a building, is it allowed to spawn kill there?

To me is pretty obvious, we already said no spawn killing.

Do we really need to spell out a rule book when you know you are ruining the game for all the other team? If you know it is ruining the game, you know it is wrong. Trying to excuse it with: where are the rules? It's like pissing on the kitchen of a bar and say that there is no sign saying it's forbidden.

On Tactics, strategy and game philosophy

(A collection of posts from:)
The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library

SB467 DF MAXIM's & MORE -Strategic advice and more from a combat flight instructor.

The Dogfight Meta -On strategic gaming possibilities.

There are no Rules: An Article on DF Ethics

Tips for the lopsided game from MäX

What makes a 'GG' a good game

Outnumbered? =Survival Mode=!!!

Get a tissue!

Head on only? Why?

Bombing game tactics ?

Transcend Your Game -By Luna, how to coordinate an effective sneak.

Bumping for.S99 who was asking about tactics:


There are so many different types of tactics that can be used in the game, especially when you are able to coordinate with your teammates. So much is situational depending heavily on who you are playing with. (Some players just plain won't try anything but head on bomb runs and claim that it is honorable)

You should check out some of the links below.. One of the best is "SB467's DF MAXIMS' s & MORE "

There are lots of discussions on this and other threads listed elsewhere in the "library" regarding tactics. There is another particular thread I have not been able to find for a while now, one of the best, if I find it I'll let you know. I welcome anyone to suggest other relevant threads.

[NLR] McFate wrote: On Tactics, strategy and game philosophy

(A collection of posts from:)
The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library



The Dogfight Meta -On strategic gaming possibilities.

SB467 DF MAXIM's & MORE -Strategic advice and more from a combat flight instructor.

There are no Rules: An Article on DF Ethics

Tips for the lopsided game from MäX

What makes a 'GG' a good game

Outnumbered? =Survival Mode=!!!

Get a tissue!

Head on only? Why?

Transcend Your Game -By Luna, how to coordinate an effective sneak.

*BUMP*

Visit The Unofficial Dogfight Law Library

If you want to report an abusive player:


If you want to give others a warning about a bad player you can post on the blacklist thread or in worse cases you can make a specific thread about the player. To alert Zuperman send him an email or post a specific thread on the forum. Include screenshots whenever possible and ask others to make reports if they have the same experience. Try to keep it to the facts. Some of the trolls are just seeking attention and by making a complaint thread about them you may just be encouraging the negative behavior.


Have patience! It may take several reports from several players before it gets Zuperman's attention and keep in mind that some persistent trolls will just come back over and over again with another new account.

E*A*G*L*E wrote: I had emailed Zup about something and this was his reply to me:

I get reports and answer daily to a few hundredths emails from Dogfight community... I just don't post on the forum. Again, I can't help the game, neither improve it if I spend half my time just reading and replying in the forum. That's why I just each squadron to self moderate themselves with my minimum intervention.

People fake reporting are getting nice surprises. You just don't find out because I don't go posting on the forum with the list of people that I ban every day. Every "report", as the name says, sends a message directly to me. I see it and if someone is playing around, that person gets banned. Simple as that. I place about 10 bans a day because of it.

As for the forum, it's too big for me to read it all. That's why you can either email me or just hit the "report" button on the forum. I get a message both ways to check what's going on.

and btw, if they change their names I can see who they are. I have a system that tracks every name change, so changing their name is just silly.

(Thanks E*A*G*L*E!)

zuperman wrote: he was banned a few days ago, but please, i don't think we need to start a thread for every time we want to ban a player. I think it's enough that you guys send me email with the screenshots. It's annoying that you send me emails AND post on the forum so I have to go through it twice for every person that needs a ban.

Hi friend about the suggested Camping so that Zuperman would provide fuel limits (to avoid camp in the long run) would be great because it has pilots even the BIG PILOTS do it sometimes and I fight this attitude amicably because it goes against the Joaquin's golden rule about everyone having fun and letting the riders take off. Maybe one day there will be limits on fuel (to avoid long-term camping) to avoid 'Camping'.

Lone Player wrote: Hi friend about the suggested Camping so that Zuperman would provide fuel limits (to avoid camp in the long run) would be great because it has pilots even the BIG PILOTS do it sometimes and I fight this attitude amicably because it goes against the Joaquin's golden rule about everyone having fun and letting the riders take off. Maybe one day there will be limits on fuel (to avoid long-term camping) to avoid 'Camping'.

Its been suggested before.

Maybe he could change the plane breaks back to DF1 style. I know he made the change to be a more accurate characteristic. Where the planes horsepower would eventually over power locked brakes. In DF1 you could almost lift off vertically and engage spawn killers.

Lone Player wrote: Hi friend about the suggested Camping so that Zuperman would provide fuel limits (to avoid camp in the long run) would be great because it has pilots even the BIG PILOTS do it sometimes and I fight this attitude amicably because it goes against the Joaquin's golden rule about everyone having fun and letting the riders take off. Maybe one day there will be limits on fuel (to avoid long-term camping) to avoid 'Camping'.

Hi Lone,

'Camping' is one of the most debated issues. When mixed with spawnkilling; especially when done by high ranked players over noobs, most players would consider it abusive and possibly 'game ruining'. If someone is hanging over the enemy base in an effort to distract and cover incoming teammates/zeppelins/bombers but they are allowing reds to get airborne, they are contributing to the mission.


This is not something that can be easily solved with in-game mechanisms. Having limited fuel seems like a good idea. It is 'realistic' to a degree and seems reasonable but I doubt it will do much to solve the camping issue. Keep in mind that planes already have limited ammo, would short supplies of fuel be better? How much fuel would be enough? Even if you have only enough fuel to fly straight to the enemy base and return to reload that provides several minutes worth of camping time. Certainly you'd want more fuel than that? How much is too much? Also the way upgrades work the high ranks would probably still have an advantage. Would the fuel capacity be the same for all ranks and all games bombing/ctf/btc/ctc/zep/df? Every new mechanism can have unintended consequences.

Camping is a hard one to solve with in-game mechanisms. Limiting fuel sounds like a good idea but it may not be a simple fix.

???

[NLR] McFate wrote:

Lone Player wrote: Hi friend about the suggested Camping so that Zuperman would provide fuel limits (to avoid camp in the long run) would be great because it has pilots even the BIG PILOTS do it sometimes and I fight this attitude amicably because it goes against the Joaquin's golden rule about everyone having fun and letting the riders take off. Maybe one day there will be limits on fuel (to avoid long-term camping) to avoid 'Camping'.

Hi Lone,

'Camping' is one of the most debated issues. When mixed with spawnkilling; especially when done by high ranked players over noobs, most players would consider it abusive and possibly 'game ruining'. If someone is hanging over the enemy base in an effort to distract and cover incoming teammates/zeppelins/bombers but they are allowing reds to get airborne, they are contributing to the mission.


This is not something that can be easily solved with in-game mechanisms. Having limited fuel seems like a good idea. It is 'realistic' to a degree and seems reasonable but I doubt it will do much to solve the camping issue. Keep in mind that planes already have limited ammo, would short supplies of fuel be better? How much fuel would be enough? Even if you have only enough fuel to fly straight to the enemy base and return to reload that provides several minutes worth of camping time. Certainly you'd want more fuel than that? How much is too much? Also the way upgrades work the high ranks would probably still have an advantage. Would the fuel capacity be the same for all ranks and all games bombing/ctf/btc/ctc/zep/df? Every new mechanism can have unintended consequences.

Camping is a hard one to solve with in-game mechanisms. Limiting fuel sounds like a good idea but it may not be a simple fix.

???

Fuel limits would be OK unless it took awhile to get to enemy base due to turn fighting and dogfights with the enemy. I think that it would be better to have the plane automatically respawn once they dropped the last bomb they was carrying. It would eliminate droppers also being that they would have to keep at least one bomb on there plane.

All good points. Another solution is a penalty if you fail to rtb before running out of fuel. Limited fuel, but enough to press the mission, plus a little aircover time, and rtb. Run out of fuel before you get back= loss of points, maybe even bonus points to rtb in time.

TR wrote: All good points. Another solution is a penalty if you fail to rtb before running out of fuel. Limited fuel, but enough to press the mission, plus a little aircover time, and rtb. Run out of fuel before you get back= loss of points, maybe even bonus points to rtb in time.

Zup could add a time limit . Once you cross enemy territory you have 2 mins to drop bombs and clear the boundary line. If you fail to vacate you blow up

Cypher wrote:Zup could add a time limit . Once you cross enemy territory you have 2 mins to drop bombs and clear the boundary line. If you fail to vacate you blow up
I agree with you cypher...That was some kind of close enough thought from all the posts i saw(in my point of view).

In reality there was a boundry line, it was called no mans land, the area between the trenches. Many pilots kept aware of prevailing winds so that they might drift into trouble over enemy territory by being fired on by enemy anti- aircraft artillery.

[NLR] MadBull wrote: Cypher wrote:Zup could add a time limit . Once you cross enemy territory you have 2 mins to drop bombs and clear the boundary line. If you fail to vacate you blow up
I agree with you cypher...That was some kind of close enough thought from all the posts i saw(in my point of view).

Thanks MadBull. To me this seems to be the easiest way to control camping and spawn killing. I believe as far as program writing, this also would be the easiest to add to the game. That said I am not a game developer. I hope Zup takes a peak at this Idea. Maybe present it to the community and vote on it