Is there a way to just buy ranks like you can points? Having to wait until 30 to get the cool planes is ridiculous. I’d be more willing to have a subscription if it didn’t take so long to unlock the new planes. 

Having a subscription allows you to gain points faster too since it gives you access to some powerful planes.
But yeah, you cannot buy ranks, that would be completely unfair.

 

FOR SALE!!!!!

First ranking in Dogfight Elite. Comes with many planes.

The package contains;
- Highest ranking in DF E.
- A whole range of WW1 and WW2 aircraft.
- A flight course of 2 hours.
- A full squad.
- A lot of friends.
- Lots of haters who would rather see you leave than come.
_ .........
- And besides all this you get the name Frits for free!!!!!

  Be quick, only 1 available!!

Only 2 500$


For more information call my lawyer;
Dr Hou Van Humor. 0053 000 000 000.

What appears to be completely unfair is going up against WW2 planes when it takes 20k points just to get to a higher rank. Even with a subscription the points required to get close to the newer planes appears unattainable. Making rank more attainable, at least, seems reasonable.

Lol 

frits wrote:

 

FOR SALE!!!!!

First ranking in Dogfight Elite. Comes with many planes.

The package contains;
- Highest ranking in DF E.
- A whole range of WW1 and WW2 aircraft.
- A flight course of 2 hours.
- A full squad.
- A lot of friends.
- Lots of haters who would rather see you leave than come.
_ .........
- And besides all this you get the name Frits for free!!!!!

  Be quick, only 1 available!!

Only 2 500$


For more information call my lawyer;
Dr Hou Van Humor. 0053 000 000 000.

Lowdan Clear wrote:
$2500 US Dollars????  All the time  and effort you put into achieving everything you listed for sale for only $2500?  If it took you three years to achieve those things (most likely it took longer) lets say you played 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, that's only $0.40 an hour.  Frits price should be more like $250,000 and that's still only $40.06 an hour.  Your lawyer's phone should be ringing off the hook. Its the make believe deal of the century.  lol

PS. How much for just the haters???

MikeSterling wrote:

What appears to be completely unfair is going up against WW2 planes when it takes 20k points just to get to a higher rank. Even with a subscription the points required to get close to the newer planes appears unattainable. Making rank more attainable, at least, seems reasonable.

I'm changing the system so that you will not see WW2 airplanes at all, even play alone if nobody from ww1 shows up. Since it seems to be a pain point for some, i guess it is better to be playing alone until you reach the ww2 rank than against ww2 planes.

I'm also making it easier to level up for the first 20 ranks.
 

Well I can remember when I first started none of us complained and belly ached about it we just kept playing against the high ranks and made us better players we never got a break as this game gives now ..seeya in the lead filled skies....Mean Fokker

Making it easier to progress through the first 20 ranks is reasonable. Thank you.

I first started playing this game around 2012 or so when the only “higher ranks” were players with similar planes but just a higher “rank.” I get that I’ll get some grief for asking it easier to progress through the ranks. But I surely don’t believe I am out of line when I say that it’s egregious that going from a 6 to a 7 (which wouldn’t entail new access to a plane) requires 24k points.

Also want to clarify I don’t mean to over criticize. I’ve enjoyed this game for a while and and just coming back to it. I do think there are areas of improvement that would make me and others more willing to subscribe and make other purchases. Thanks for a great game.

Mean, you are wrong. For many years the game was split on ranks, so that people joining the game would not see a MORAF until moving forward. You would also be split between different servers so that you didn't lag so badly on your location. But back then, there were many more players joining daily (around 3000-4000 people) so it was not that obvious. When the stores changed to only getting visibility by paying, the downloads collapsed. Now you need to pay a fortune to Apple/Google to get downloads. Before they changed their system to milk out the developers, the game would be listed at the top just because of the reviews and ratings. The game gets around 70 downloads now daily, much less than when you began playing.

Since not many new people were joining (level 1-10)... and everyone was higher rank, I had to make the change to allow them to play with higher ranks or they would join and find an empty room and leave. It's not easy to keep new players around if nobody is playing at that rank.

So let's give it a try and place them on WW1 until they level up, even if they are alone. But nope, you won't be able to rank up by paying, that is not fair. You already get tons of advantages as a subscriber.

Ok this experiment has been going on for 1 week. Limiting the players to WW1 until they level up and not seeing higher ranked planes and people was a disaster.
People stay 1 to 2 minutes and leave. So yes, I put it as it was before this conversation. It is much better to have a rank 1 against a rank 30 than to have a rank 1 join, see nobody around and leave the game forever to not come back.

 

Is it practical to insert some stupid robotic planes flown by imaginary players into the games of those newbies if there aren't any other players? (Like in the practice levels.)
Crash them out if the number of players gets above a threshold.

Yes you can do that but those planes are very obviously bots. Not sure whether it would help much.

Well no I'm not wrong because when I first started I was getting killed on runway and taking off runway and was slaughtered by wig,zebra up,B-52 Davey Crockett shall I keep listing names cause the list goes on so don't tell me I'm wrong the only thing that's wrong is this game play of updates that keeps happening that has been going on for 2 yrs since I came back after not playing for 4 yrs and the reason for not playing is when this game changed to dogfight elite same problems then as of now still not fixed.so the only right you have to tell me I'm wrong is cause your the designer of this game and that's the only reason not that I'm wrong because what i said was the truth and I came back to see if this game of dogfight elite got any better I've been playing back for 2 yrs and I have not seen it but for just a short period of time being playable half way descent until updates released so keep saying it's fixed and calling people complainers when there bringing up issues with the game and I will keep calling it as I see it and you can keep telling me im wrong to give yourself relief thx zup have a great day

So once you get a subscription what zup is saying nothing would be unfair in war...lol

zuperman wrote:

Yes you can do that but those planes are very obviously bots. Not sure whether it would help much.

Some of the beginners fly like bots. I don't think they would notice the difference 
Just give them names like DeathMachine22 .

Isn't this game ranked by points higher the points higher your rank? So buy points be higher rank.so actually you buy points your actually buying your rank but that's not unfair come on think about it..lol

I started playing this game about 10-11 years ago pre-DFE. The way I recall the game back then is the way Mean described it. You got crushed by the higher ranks for a good while but at least back then it was easier to rank up and get better planes. Back then I played for about 1 1/2 to 2 years and was able to make MORAF and break the top 100 ranks at the 100th spot when I left the game until recently So I took my beatings but it was for a shorter period compared to what new players go through today. The points now are ridiculously high to rank up and get better equipment. You pretty much have to make this game your life to move up. Achievements make players feel good, they have fun when they are progressing. Making it so hard many people just lose interest. I remember all the players Mean mentioned and like he said there were so many other really good players. Why can't you make the game more like it was at its peak? All the changes while well-intentioned may not have worked as you hoped.

Thx lowden for reading my comment and replying on my comment your a great pilot and very fair to others in this game.I do also remember this game in its peak fun and great times getting beat or not slayed or delayed still was a great game and I believe it can be again just hoping sooner not later. thx again Mean Fokker seeya in the lead filled skies

And why do you think there was many more players back then than there are now.... I know lowden clear explained it in his comment that's a fact

MEAN FOKKER wrote:

Well no I'm not wrong because when I first started I was getting killed on runway and taking off runway and was slaughtered by wig,zebra up,B-52 Davey Crockett shall I keep listing names cause the list goes on so don't tell me I'm wrong the only thing that's wrong is this game play of updates that keeps happening that has been going on for 2 yrs since I came back after not playing for 4 yrs and the reason for not playing is when this game changed to dogfight elite same problems then as of now still not fixed.so the only right you have to tell me I'm wrong is cause your the designer of this game and that's the only reason not that I'm wrong because what i said was the truth and I came back to see if this game of dogfight elite got any better I've been playing back for 2 yrs and I have not seen it but for just a short period of time being playable half way descent until updates released so keep saying it's fixed and calling people complainers when there bringing up issues with the game and I will keep calling it as I see it and you can keep telling me im wrong to give yourself relief thx zup have a great day
 

                 


Most of us started almost a decade ago. We overcome all difficulties and we are still playing. I think the ww1 period must back to how it was. I think part of lack players is due to locked ww1 planes for non premium users.

I already explained the lack of players a few times. If you don't want to believe it, it's up to you. The lack of players is not due to game changes or anything related to the game. It is due how the App Store changed the way they promote games and the huge amount of new games available. You have to pay to be visible, and since they want to make more and more money, you have to pay more and more. The game is visualized on the store around 1000 times a day, and it gets 40-70 people to download. If you do the math it is super simple to figure out, only 40 new people join a day. Of those 40, only a few stick because most people get a game, check it out and leave. It happens with every game anyone gets in the app store. Around 1 to 2% of all downloads are converted to players. Do you want to be seen more than 1000 times a day? You pay. For that, you need to be a big studio. On top of that, 10 years ago there were 4 airplane games, nowadays you literally have a whole section dedicated to airplane games. The app store grew from 70,000 apps to MILLIONS of apps and games. Everyone competing with each other. You cannot compare 10 years ago with nowadays, it's a whole different world in the app stores!

Compare this to when you guys began playing. Back then, the stores made no money on ads or promotions. If your game was good and got good reviews, you were listed at the top. There were about 5 to 7 airplane games back then. Dogfight Elite was listed at the top every single week. It was getting more than 3000 NEW PLAYERS daily due to this. It just kept growing organically. Most players did not spend money, but it was a constant influx of new players and that's why we had several servers to choose from.

You just keep saying that it is due to changes in the game, or how difficult to buy planes, and how WW1 was and how WW2 is and bla bla bla. New players have no clue how the game was 10 years ago. The answer is super simple, if no new players come in, you have fewer and fewer players year after year. This is 99% due to how Apple and Google changed their store to make a profit on game promotions.

Just to be more clear. Several years ago I made a test. I released Dogfight. The one you know from 10 years ago. I picked up the old version, published to the store, exactly the version that you all played and remember as the "good one". I left it in the store for 4 months, anyone could download and play. I did the same that I did years ago, same type of promotion and stuff. If it has gotten tons of downloads, I would have kept that version of the game and deleted Dogfight Elite. That was a test to make a decision because nobody likes to see a game you created losing players. If I had made a mistake, easy fix: put Dogfight as it was, and forget about it. Life would be easier, especially for me. The reality? Do you know what happened during those 4 months? It got 4 to 7 new players per day and most reviews said "This game sucks". The store was NOT displaying the game unless I paid about 5k a week on promotion (that's $20,000 a month). I removed that version from the store and nobody even noticed it existed for 4 months!

Every time I save some money and make a promotion, I get hundredths of new players. Last month I spent $4k on a promotion, I get 400 new people joining in 2 days. New people have no clue how the game was 10 years ago, they either like it or not. They did like it, some stayed (again, the number is usually 2% of total downloads for almost all games). I had to spend $4k to get around 400 new players registered and only about 20 stayed for the month. Compare that to 10 years ago, I was getting 3000 daily without paying a dime. It's a completely different world now and it has nothing to do with game changes.

On the topic of ranks and expensive planes... if you begin a new account from scratch today, compare it to 10 years ago. You can reach level 10 and buy 5 airplanes in about 2 or 3 days. 10 years ago you needed almost a month. 10 years ago the highest rank was less than 20. Then it was increased to 31. To reach MORAF you needed about 1 year on average with a lot of constant playing. You can reach similar ranks and buy the same airplanes in less than half the time now. So no, it is not more difficult today and that's not why people are not playing. You can level up easier, and faster, and get more planes and points today than in the old days. You can literally test this yourself by creating a new account. Ranks requirements are super easy compared to the old days. People played not because it was easier to buy planes, it is easier now! They played because we had 50 to 70 people playing at the same time for many hours due to the constant new downloads of the game.

This is the reality, the game is not getting fewer players because of changes or how wonderful it was 10 years ago vs today. It is because the app stores made a deliberate choice to fuck up indie developers and only allow corporations with tons of money to do promotions. If you want new players, you have to pay. And you have to pay A LOT of money. Simple. 


Also Mean, you take everything as a personal attack. I reply with the facts that I get and when I see your response is wrong I say so. I don't attack you or anyone for criticizing the game, nor ban people because of that. You are literally living proof because you just day in and day out complain about me and the game. I told you several times that if you tell me what's failing, I try to fix it. Nothing more. If you just say "this game sucks", that does not help anyone neither allows me to fix anything. It adds no value to do it like that and I think it's an unhealthy behavior, all I'm asking from you is that you give concrete ideas or details on what is failing so I can fix it.



 

I'm not criticizing the game at all and not comparing it to game 10 years years ago only quality of the game that's all and I'm not taking it as an attack only trying to get the understanding of why your not seeing it that's all . And adding things when other things aren't fixed I don't believe that helps either.thx have a great day

Thank you Zup for explaining the business end of the game to the community and to me. Many of us myself included have no idea what challenges you deal with behind the scenes. Thank you also for explaining and comparing the points and ranking system of today to the old days. I'm not sure I'm totally with you on the comparison though. I don't think there is any way a player could make MORAF in a year today. But apparently, it's a moot point since that is not the core reason the game is not gaining and keeping new players.

I speak for myself now my understanding of why the game is lacking players is limited to my in-game experience. I shared my thoughts and ideas on some things I thought were preventing the game from growing and let you decide whether or not those thoughts are relevant and actionable. But I believe your recent in-game experience is in line with mine. 

I run a business myself and the struggle to be at the top of a stack in organic searches on Google or in stores is a real challenge. Although the business environment has changed dramatically in the gaming industry over the last ten years perhaps we could have held on to more of the players during its peak with fewer changes. That said, one thing that is constant is change, and if you don't adapt and change with the changing times, you're in danger of becoming obsolete. I clearly do not have the answers and can only share my in-game experience. Your position is difficult Zup. The business environment you operate in has become ultra-competitive and favors big-budget large corporations. How do you keep the community happy, grow the game, and make a decent living at the same time?

Is there anything we can do to help you improve your position on searches? (I assume reviews) Is there anything else we can do to help grow the game?

 

Well I've tried to explain issues of the game and be civilized and you always say I'm complaining zup .so I explain issues being civilized so I don't know any other way to get your attention cause the issues (or complaining as you call it) still having same issues plane not steady for the 3rd time,plane crashing in mid air for 2yrs since ive been back after parachuting  and respawn plane flips upside down on runway or it goes crazy out of control runs into hanger or building and crashes.parachute and land don't give me a walk to tank or airplane choice so I have to quit and reenter or self destroy and others saying same thing and bullets hitting target and not registering not all time but most times on any pilots six right on them and you can see bullets going right thru fuselauge have seen where other pilots are having same issuesi so i know I'm not the only one with these same issues.and thx I guess I will just have to keep reminding. you the game has potential to get back where it was I would like to see it then I would be a subscriber again

And I don't recall saying anything about people not playing or leaving cause of game changes.i do recall saying I don't understand making game changes when other issues aren't fixed that's what I said  thx zup have a good evening
 

Unfortunately, programming has always many dependencies. Fixing one thing breaks 3 others. And it also has many non-controlled dependencies. For instance Apple or Google enforcing to make changes because of new device releases. Those changes break your game in unexpected ways and fixing those break other things... it's always a never ending loop. If all I did was fix bugs, the game would never get new features. So I have to keep a balance between both things at the same time that listen to the different app stores for their requirements. It's not as simple as "fix the broken things first" unfortunately.

Let me give you examples from this past month:
- Apple enforced code changes for iOS 16. This broke some random parts.
- Meta Oculus enforced upgrade to their latest SDK, I'm getting some weird controls behaviour with it.
- Google is enforcing all apps to be updated to SDK 33, which is giving permission errors to many devices and weird crashes.
- Photon added an update to their sdk and it is why some bombs are getting stuck sometimes. It also makes airplanes lose control randomly. I can't do much about it aside from waiting for them to fix it. I could roll back but then the sdk doesn't have the required changes for Apple 16 which is mandatory for the Apple store. So I'm stuck with these bugs until Photon releases next update.
- Unity (the makes of the game engine) released an update and broke some other things. I can go back to the previous version but it doesn't support Google SDK 33 (see previous Google enforcement), which means Google would remove the game from the store until updated. So I have to keep it with bugs until Unity fixes this version.

and so on... none under my control. So it seems i just keep breaking and not fixing but in reality, it's always a neverending loop of fixing from different dependencies. And I cannot be forever just fixing without adding new stuff because the game turns boring otherwise.